The Rant has burst forth

[lesmisloony]

I getting sick of it.  Elitism, idiocy, snark.  I'm sick of all of it.

I hate it when people try to pick fights.  I hate it when people are needlessly, repetitively stupid.  I hate it when people are argumentative just for the sake of being one of the enlightened few who can disagree.  I hate it when people leave the first two letters off of the word "you." I hate Sues and I hate OOC crack and I hate new forum members and I hate old forum members.  I hate cliques.  I hate the way *I* act so much more obnoxious on MdN than I do at Abaisse, presumably because few people are MdN are worthy of being treated as well as the fans hardcore enough to find Abaisse?  Or maybe it's because there's no introduction topic at MdN and people with only a passing interest for the show/Book can drop in and out all the time.  There's no real opportunity to actually remember names and personalities.

So a new person comes into the fandom with their crappy stories.  I did it.  I still rather like my first fic, but after that it went downhill for a long time.  But I kept writing because other people were silly enough to follow me and give me advice on how to get better.  I read better fic than mine, I read the Book more, and I eventually felt like my stuff started improving a little.  I'm still not one of the people who posts that great, allusion-filled Hugo-esque stuff, but at least I have a basic grasp on most of the characters (and try not to write those about which I know nothing).  And then, once you transcend the crap phase, that's when you start hating the people who are still in the crap phase.  And yes, I do this too.  I'm doing this now.  

BUT if the person listens to reviewers and makes an effort to improve without getting defensive, that's when I'll generally back off.  But seriously.  I feel like I came into the fandom with an attitude that I was going to be awesome (hurr).  I can specifically remember every unkindly-worded review I got on those crappy fics and all the concrit I got from people I respected.  In fact...

>this story has a good plot so far, but maybe you could write a bit more about what the characters are feeling/thinking, etc. and basically go more in-depth...(sry I haven't r&r-ed for forever) you're POTO fic looks interesting *grins and goes off to read it*

>I'm glad there was some more "stuff" in this instead of saying "so-and-so did this, said that"...

Those were the friendly ones that poked me into actually trying to reform my writing style when I was in, what, ninth grade?  "2004-08-07" is the date on the second one... so that was five years ago.  Wow. 

Anyway, between going through the sweet reviews on my old bad Sue-y fic and Russell Brand doing standup on TV, I've cheered up a lot in the last couple of minutes.  I don't know.  Oh, and I took the advice of those of you who told me to rethink my position on that Kiera Sue fic.  I took your advice and I didn't say anything for as long as I could.  But some strange inner sadism inspired me to keep reading it, and I finally couldn't not leave another review.  I tried to be more civil and level-headed about it, but I don't know.  I guess a Sue is definitely better than a lot of the crappy crack I've been seeing lately.  I've only got a few in mind when I say this, and I don't dislike the person/people who wrote them, so I haven't said anything.

There's something else about the fandom.  I'm hyper-sensitive to the way I come across in print, seeing how, you know, internet people don't actually know me (though I feel like I can eventually get a good idea of most people's personalities after a long time) so I always take pains to try not to be a jerk.  I don't see why other people enjoy picking arguments over the slightest thing.

Okay, seriously, all my angst is fading away and I'm losing my train of thought.  Being cheery is nice.  And Russell Brand is just hilarious.

I had put together a fandom flowchart to demonstrate the vicious cycle of newbie to snob, but I lost it.  Oh well.

(None of this is directed at anybody in particular, by the way.  I'm basically frustrated because I don't want to be a jerky elitist or a hyperactive idiot and I don't see much middle ground... I feel snarky towards new members and petulant towards old ones...)

Comments

[cabaret-chic.livejournal.com]

MdN is particularly guilty of cliques. Which is why I tend not to post as much.

I think everyone goes through that period when they feel angst towards new folk and even some of the older members.

[10littlebullets.livejournal.com]

Eh. Now that I've been around long enough, I can start to see it as a cycle--n00bs who lose their n00bishness get so happy about being one of the Chosen Few who Know Everything that they lord it over the freshest batch of n00bs--some of whom drop out, some of whom keep on being n00bish, some of whom grow up a little and hang around the edges of fandom, and a few become the next batch of snobs. But I think the snobs eventually grow up too, and realize that there's more to fandom than having the biggest trivia-dick. I know I did. Hell, I used to sharpen my claws on the stupid and the ignorant every chance I got, and yeah it was fun--but it doesn't make the fandom a particularly nice place, so now I save it for people who are being genuinely, repetitively obnoxious.

I still have to restrain the urge to thwack people over the head when they try to bring up the same old tired Lea vs. Frances, Cosette vs. Eponine, make-your-own-dream-cast, etc. topics that have been discussed to death. I'm trying to be more zen about it--yeah, the old-timers have been there and done that, but I remember when I was newly in love with Les Mis and just wanted to talk about EVERYTHING and didn't care whether it had been discussed before; I just wanted to get some of that fresh new shiny obsession out of my head.

What still really does piss me off, though, is unsolicited Brick-picking reviews on fics that are obviously musical-based--especially the blithe assumption that this is DIRTY AND WRONG AND NEEDS FIXING. It's like, dude, the author isn't going to learn anything from that except that the reviewers who hang around the LM section of ff.net are so obsessed with Brick details that they can't say anything useful about the plot or characterization or style.

I've been staying away from ff.net lately though. The latest influx of unfunny "humor" fics is too much for me. I can't even name specific perpetrators because it all looks exactly the same.

/ramble

[ulkis.livejournal.com]

Eh. Now that I've been around long enough, I can start to see it as a cycle--n00bs who lose their n00bishness get so happy about being one of the Chosen Few who Know Everything that they lord it over the freshest batch of n00bs--some of whom drop out, some of whom keep on being n00bish, some of whom grow up a little and hang around the edges of fandom, and a few become the next batch of snobs.

Yeah. Also, I tend to give newbies on musicals.net a little more slack because musical fandoms tend to skew very very young, more so than others.

Broadwayworld.com boards though, if you think musicals.net is bad though, I hate that place. But I'm exposing myself now because I'm hunting for reviews. I'll be glad when my phase is over.

[capnspaulding32.livejournal.com]

Ahh, here's the promised rant!
Let me just say, I love MdN... however, I'm a performer and a general musical theatre obsessor, and not just a Les Mis geek (although I am a Les Mis geek, as well). Not relating to Les Mis, some of the MdN folks have taught me extremely valuable lessons about performing, and I've learned a lot about the breadth of musical theatre from them. And, while there are some idiots on the social forum, there are a lot of really nice helpful people.

However... as Les Mis is concerned ... since MdN is a website not devoted solely to Les Mis, but to musicals in general, you are going to find more people who don't know much about Les Mis as an entity but think On My Own is catchy and tragic. If you want Les Mis as a branch of "musical theatre," you'll find it at MdN. If you want Les Mis, not just the musical but the book and the movies and everything, as the focus, Abaisse is much better.

I have some pet peeves about the Les Mis section of MdN, but they're somewhat different from yours. I don't like the snarkiness in the LM MdN forum, and I really hate it when someone comes in and posts their thoughts on the musical, and one of the Les Mis vets immediately jumps in with something with the general vibe of, "Why are you talking musical!verse, you idiot? Leave, and, ugh, don't even think about coming back before you've read The Brick in at least two languages and analyzed it thoroughly." It's musicals.net, you guys, and Les Mis is an extremely popular musical. There's nothing wrong with liking Les Mis in its incarnation as a megamusical that is sometimes not quite book-accurate.

That's why there's Abaisse. I like Abaisse, too, and I think it's a great place for hardcore Les Mis scholars to go and talk about different facets of the Brick and how it relates to the musical and movies. But I think it's silly and stupid of people to think that people coming onto musicals.net won't post about their reactions to Les Mis, the musical. I don't see this kind of elitism in fandoms of other musicals based on books (except for My Fair Lady to some extent, and that doesn't have nearly the base of hardcore fans that Les Mis does). I don't even really have a problem with people arguing their points of view about Les Mis based on musical!verse on MdN, because the parent website has made it evident (by its name) that the musical is the assumed topic of discussion. On Abaisse, it would be a different story ... but on MdN, seriously. Why do people who study Les Mis and have read the Brick tend to act SO snobby towards musical fans?

[/my own mini-rant]

[lesmisloony.livejournal.com]

The sad thing is, I am/have been one of those people, and I know I am. It's just not something I think about until someone points it out to me. And you're totally right. But I started out as a big moron and then became a total elitist, and now I'm trying to find the middle ground.

Actually, this rant finally burst out because of GarguaDin or whatever on MdN who just seems to be unnecessarily rude about everything. And I think TVAW is often unreasonable. In fact, Quique is one of the only MdN-based people I really like (Kragey, too, though she hasn't been by in a while). And I'm talking about people who haven't gone to join the other forum. I'm sure I'll think of someone else in a second... It's not that I DISlike everyone there. It's just such a constant cycle of new people and bad spelling that I can't keep track of them like I can at Abaisse. (Though Abaisse got really obnoxious the other day--the problem has been settled, but WOW. And there's one person THERE who's starting to rub me the wrong way. Maybe I'm just touchy and hormonal.)

ANYWAY. I even went through a spell where I'd ask all musical-based fanfic to be moved into the Misc Musicals section. I'm reforming and I'm trying to be less of a jerk, but it's really annoying. I'm annoying and everybody else is annoying... you know what I mean?

...maybe I'm sleep-deprived. Stupid Sims, keeping me up all night and making me cranky...

[mmejavert.livejournal.com]

I will never allow Abaissé to become obnoxious. Dude.

And yeah, there is a Situation brewing at Abaissé. If you haven't figured out the Situation all by yourself yet, I'm willing to answer questions, but very shortly (as in the next week or two) there will be another Admin post which should... um, clarify things. It might have to do with that one person who's rubbing you the wrong way.

[cattylina.livejournal.com]

umhai.

Here I come to make an awkward comment that won't really say anything at all. But then again, that's me. So, Abaisse-it's fun, and it's gotten an influx of new members. YOUNG new members, including myself. I joined in November, but in the last few weeks a lot of people have joined/come back to the forum. The new members are between the ages of 13-17, as far as I can tell. (I know there are a lot of 16 y/o..I'm one of 'em.)

I'm pretty sure I know what situation you're talking about, and I agree with you. It got out of hand. If this was posted in a fit of hormonal pique, let me remind you that everyone who joins basically jizzes their pants when you say hey to them. No matter how annoying they/we are, t/w pretty much idolize you.

So there's your Ego-Stroking moment of the day, brought to you by Crest WhiteStrips.

[mmejavert.livejournal.com]

Actually that situation with the intro threads was not what I meant.

Er... I'm flattered. XD I think.

[cattylina.livejournal.com]

heh, I'm awkward. *is tentative around teh great admin*

[lesmisloony.livejournal.com]

I know you've taken issue with one thing this person said. I'm a little annoyed by someone who seems really dramatic about everything and quick to insult. And tends to post lots of OT things and then demand reviews and attention on them. Some of this might be some kind of language barrier thing; I'm aware that a lot of people there aren't native English speakers. And it's nothing I can't deal with. I just add it to a list of things I need to get over and deal with...